Issue 818: Kind Robin : further thoughts

New issue submitted

If you refer to Eric Ferguson’s crib (as opposed to the MiniCrib) in the database, you will see that according to that the sequence is “set, circle to the left half-way (2 bars), turn partners, circle to the left half-way (2 bars)”, which leaves the dancers in the same positions as at the start of the formation.

I don’t have the original instructions to hand, but in my experience Eric’s cribs are the next best thing – they are usually more accurate than MiniCribs. In the absence of evidence to the contrary I would consider the problem at hand an issue in the MiniCrib for the dance, which should be called in to the MiniCrib team (we get the cribs from them wholesale and, in the interest of avoiding confusion, don’t make any changes to them ourselves).

Assigned changed to »EricFerguson« (previously »None«)
Disposition changed to »Needs help« (previously »New«)

As this issue tackles the same topic as issue 817, issue 817 has been stopped [ignored]. The discussion continues here.

I was too quick off the mark, in deciding to change from full to 1/2 circles. I have changed my crib back to two full circles, while waiting for new opinions.

The original Drewry instructions (copied exactly from a typewritten page looking just like Drewry’s usual pages) say:

17-18 1st and 2nd couples set in the diamond formation

19-20 1st and 2nd couples dance four hands round to the left

21-22 1st and 2nd couples turn partners with both hands opening up to reform the circle

23-24 1st and 2nd couples dance four hands round to the left to finish in diamond formation again.

25-26 1st and 2nd couples set in the diamond formation <and so on> .

I repeat my questions:

Drewry writes “dance 4 hands round to the left” twice. That means twice a full 4 hands circle and a BH turn in 6 bars. That is very difficult, even if the circle is drawn in small and the dancers cheat to move on along the circle during the BH turn.

If both circles go only half round, the figure is easy to dance. Think of “Wind on Loch Fyne” for a similar formation. Could Drewry have meant “halfway” both times? Can others who know this and other Drewry dances please tell us if these are likely to be half or full circles?

Help needed. Eric

Eric, you have been in the business long enough to be able to figure out that four hands once round to the left in two bars is a physical impossibility. The fact that it doesn’t actually seem to come up in well-known dances should tell us something already; we get four hands round to the left half-way in two bars in dances like My Friend Joe but that’s as far as it goes.

The other circumstantial evidence in this case is the tune for this dance, which is a slow air (you can find it in the original edition of Book 21, not the 2007 A4-sized reprint). As far as I’m concerned this strongly suggests graceful half circles rather than madly rushed full circles.

Hi All,

Anselm, I fully agree with you, that’s why I first changed both circles to “halfway”. But I have great respect for Drewry, and must assume - unless there is clear evidence to the contrary - that his instructions are accurate. There must be many people who know this dance, and have perhaps themselves discussed this issue with John. Could someone please give us some clarification? I feel it is improper to change what Drewry wrote without proper evidence that he made a mistake.

A still uncertain Eric

I don’t buy this. I never met John Drewry but to all accounts he seems to have been a reasonable person as well as a dancer. Reasonable dancers do not choreograph dances that require other dancers to dance four hands round to the left once round in only two bars, which would make the dance inaccessible to all but the most technically skilled individuals.

Also note that “four hands round to the left” does not stipulate “halfway” but neither does it stipulate “once round”. On its own it merely means that you start moving clockwise. Since common sense in the context of this dance suggests “halfway” given there are only two bars available for the movement, don’t you suppose that John Drewry would have said “four hands once round to the left” explicitly if he had really meant us to go all the way round, just to make things clear?

Disposition changed to »Fixed« (previously »Needs help«)

Iain Boyd sent me a private e-mail which said: “If it refers to bars 17-24, then the hands round are not a problem. In my opinion, bars 17-24 are the same as in “The Duchess Tree” - set (2 bars), hands round to the left (2 bars), turn while dancing on clockwise (2 bars) and hands round to the left (2 bars) - by which time everyone is back where they started.”

I have now compared Drewry’s exact wording for this figure in the original descriptions of “Kind Robin” and of “the Duchess Tree”; they are the same. So I agree with Anselm that the words “1st and 2nd couples dance four hands round to the left” in [19-20] and [23-24] of “Kind Robin” should be read as ‘for two bars’ and not ‘in two bars’. “The Wind on Loch Fyne” has the same figure, but that original clearly adds “halfway”.

Issue fixed. Eric