Issue 1435: Red House bars 1-8: does 2c move or not?
- Object
- Red House (Dance)
- Submitter
- Eric Ferguson (EricFerguson)
- Assigned to
- Anselm Lingnau
- Priority
- Normal
- Disposition
- Ignored
- Description
-
A recent crib comment by Walter M. Ligon, M. D. raises the following issue, but the issue concerns the dance itself, not the crib.
The description in Book 7 (revised edition 2009) reads: 1 - 8 1st couple set and cast off one place, set and cast up to original places (this is not different from earlier editions). Nothing is said about 2cpl.
As 2cpl starts in 2nd pl, this is only possible if 2cpl steps upon [3-4] and down on [7-8].
If 2cpl stays put, 1cpl has to cast off 2 places, and back.TACNotes (2008 and 2012) says 1 - 24 2nd cpl stand still throughout these bars.
Could the Books Revision Committee please let us know which alternative is preferred, and adjust the description to be explicit and unambiguous?
Previous Actions
- Date May 15, 2018, 6:52 p.m.
- User Eric Ferguson (EricFerguson)
New issue submitted
- Date May 16, 2018, 12:20 a.m.
- User Anselm Lingnau (anselm)
Assigned changed to »anselm« (previously »None«)
Disposition changed to »Ignored« (previously »New«)
If 2nd couple were supposed to move then the instructions would say so. Case closed.
- Date May 16, 2018, 12:40 a.m.
- User Eric Ferguson (EricFerguson)
Disposition changed to »Being handled« (previously »Ignored«)
The instructions say “cast off one place”. That normally means to 2nd place. In this case 1c cast off to below 2c, i.e. two places down. Does that not require different wording (like “cast off below 2c”)? Eric
- Date May 16, 2018, 1:26 a.m.
- User Anselm Lingnau (anselm)
Disposition changed to »Ignored« (previously »Being handled«)
No. There are loads of dances where 1st couple make use of the gap between 2nd and 3rd couple without 2nd couple moving up, and without special language in the instructions. Consider, e.g., bars 9–12 of The Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh. Usually 1st couple move through that gap on their way somewhere else (typically “1st couple cast off [one place] then dance between 3rd couple”) but there’s nothing keeping them from stopping in the gap, setting, and then casting back up to where they came from like they do in Red House.
It stands to reason that in a crowded ballroom 2nd couple will probably move to accommodate 1st couple, but in normal practice there should be enough room between 2nd and 3rd couples without any special action on the part of 2nd couple.